The Road To Templecon: Nutting out the list

[gdaybloke]

Morning, fellow Tribbers.

I come before you seeking the benefit of your wisdom. As many of you may know (Some of you? One of you? Anyone? Bueller?) I've spent the last few months working on Trolls for the WMHC2 over at Lost Hemisphere. While I have been focussing on painting my Ta-Ta Kriel, I've been gathering a small mountain of Trib models with the intention of painting them up and taking them to Templecon.

The first problem that rears its ugly head is that while I spend a lot of time painting, I'm not particularly fast, and assembly line painting saps the joy out of the task for me, so I can't do it for a full unit at the same time. This is an issue because while I haven't decided for certain which events I'd like to play in at Templecon, I'd like to have the option to participate in them all, and State Of The Art requires 50pts fully painted.

The second problem that presents itself is that to date I've had pretty much no time to playtest Trib to any real capacity, so I haven't found the nuances that work for me, which models I love compared to which just don't suit me, etc.

Thus, I turn to you for assistance in figuring out a list that (a) isn't completely gimping my chances, (b) doesn't contain a plethora of models, to give me my best chance of getting them painted in time.

I've devoted some time to thinking about this for the last several days, and decided to work up an escalating list - start at 15,work up to 50 - so that as I complete each stage I'll at least have a fully painted 15, 25, 35pt list even if I don't complete the 50pt list.

[gdaybloke]

Thus far, I've come up with the following:

15pts: (NB: This is for painting schedule only - I won't be playing any non-MM 15pt games)
Adeptis Rahn
- Phoenix
Battle Mages (6)
- Soulless
Magister
Narn (or Eiryss)

25pts:
Adeptis Rahn
- Phoenix
- Chimera
Battle Mages (6)
- Soulless
Magisters (2)
Snipers (2)
Arcanist

35pts:
Adeptis Rahn
- Phoenix
- Chimera
Battle Mages (6)
- Soulless
Magisters (2)
Snipers (2)
Arcanist
Dahlia & Skarath

50pts:
Adeptis Rahn
- Phoenix
- Chimera
Battle Mages (6)
- Soulless
Magisters (2)
Snipers (2)
Arcanist
Dahlia & Skarath
Mage Hunters (10)
- Commander
Eiryss or Narn
Mage Hunter Assassin

The inclusion of Dahlia & Skarath may seem odd, but they're currently being painted up for me as part of a secret santa painting exchange at the FLGS (we all provided our own models, they were distributed to random painters), so that's 10pts of models I don't have to worry about throwing out the painting schedule, and I'd really like to see if I can make them work.

That still leaves approx 30 models to be painted; a daunting prospect, but I'm up for the challenge, especially now that I've settled on the colour scheme thanks to my test Scyir.

I present myself to the Hallytyr, being those of you who actually made it through the entire post, for review. (*bows*)

[edit: apparently I can't say *****sment... a nice partner for analysis in the word filter :P]
[edit2: apparently analysis is now allowed... but a.s.s.e.s.sment is still blocked ]

[gdaybloke]

No love for escalating Rahn?

[thecsharian]

I see a distinct lack of tiered goodness

I haven't played mixed Rahn, so can't comment with too much authority... but will anyway.

Your first three lists (15-35pts) look pretty good, BUT if you're not going for tiers I would look at some assassin models, with the placement and push/pull effects you have, they can easily get through, and WILL hurt your opponent. I used to be all for the Phoenix Chimera pair, but after TacComs comments on M4C I think a Griffon is perhaps a more solid choice than a second node. As for Dahlia&etc, never used them, or really looked at them, so I can't comment.
IMHO the bottom line is you don't have a solid line to hold of the enemy - so you need to rely on hitting hard, hitting fast, and hitting where you need to. I would also try squeeze in a second arcanist, if not two... they really do help the jack(s), and Rahn wants all of his focus, if he can have it.

The 50pt list though, I think it suffers a serious flaw in not having a solid unit. The Mage hunters would be very nice... but with them and everything else, you're left with a bunch of threats and possibly a centre of your caster, battle mages (unit) and a jack. This may not always be a problem, but there are some armies out there that can just roll through the threats and straight into your core... and that will hurt you.
The other option would be perhaps taking a second heavy (over the light?), then the jacks can become the 'centre' of your army, and everything else becomes a utility or threat around them.
(I'm not saying drop the Mage hunters, just find room for something else too.)



BTW nice test scheme.

[gdaybloke]

So a second heavy, or a unit of Dawnguard (either) or Halberdiers to hold the centre?

I had thought of getting in a unit of Invictors w/ a Scyir marshalling a Griffon behind them, but had difficulty working out the points.

[dragonknight31]

I am in the same position as gdaybloke. I want to get something ready for Templecon and so far I have Rahn painted and working on a Battle Mage.
XMas will deliver a Chimera and a Heavy for me. After that I need the Battle Mage group, then I have no idea!

I am going to swarm all my local shops to try and get test games in, however without an official book until January I feel December will be lost for playing.

[thecsharian]

So a second heavy, or a unit of Dawnguard (either) or Halberdiers to hold the centre?

I personally like the idea of a unit of Riflemen (RNG 14 guns) with polarity shield flanked by a jack or two... but I don't own riflemen to have tried the idea on the table, and I suspect a purely ranged deterant won't be strong enough in play.

I had thought of getting in a unit of Invictors w/ a Scyir marshalling a Griffon behind them, but had difficulty working out the points.

Use forward kommander for points calaculations

I am going to swarm all my local shops to try and get test games in, however without an official book until January I feel December will be lost for playing.

Official book? WM rules are 'officially' out in PDF format.

You should try grab some games in Vassal
I've never used it, but understand it to be easy to find games on it.

[gdaybloke]

Use forward kommander for points calaculations

I can do the math, I also have iBodger and a spreadsheet I use for army building - the issue's been fitting everything I want into the lists at various point levels.

[Killionare]

Just curios about strategies your planning on using with Dahlia & Skarath or if you have tested any games with them yet. once I get to higher point games I was considering using them just because I like the look of their models but their pros don't really jumo out to me.

[gdaybloke]

Dahlia & Skarath make the list for one specific reason: They're 10pts of painted models. The can make up 20% of my list, without further hampering the painting schedule. It's going to be a bloody miracle if I can get this lot done in time for Templecon as it stands, so I'm willing to look at any potential shortcuts I can.

It doesn't hurt that I imagine I'll get a great deal of personal satisfaction out of the "What the..." looks on my opponent's faces as well.

[Theorymachine]

It's another large base, it's a beast/jack that won't sap Rahn's FOC, it's a 10" coroding spray, it's a lesser warlock that can run interference and block charge lanes while playing her "you don't want to hit me" tune.

I think she's tricksy, and definitely has potential in Mk II. Whether she's the best option for a Rahn list or not, I don't know - but it may be worth taking a shot.

[/Theorymachine]

[gdaybloke]

Continuing the list revision, I tried out the following tonight:

Rahn
- Phoenix
- Hydra
Narn
Magister
Arcanist (2)
Battle Mages (6)
Mage Hunters (10) + UA

I played the Mage Hunters a little far forward and they ended up in melee with Satyxis. Breath of Corruption made a mockery out of the low armour on the Battle Mages, killing three and the Magister in one hit (they were hiding behind a building).

I made play mistakes, but this is more about finding out how various tricks work, right?

Things that were nifty:

1) Trampling the Phoenix over two Satyxis, then casting Force Blast to clear the mechthralls away from it, and arcing Force Hammer to slam the Deathjack into Asphyxious.

Force Blast basically means your opponent can't pin your arc nodes in melee to negate them. Unless they've placed their guys *just so*, you're going to be able to fire off that Force Hammer.

2) Hydra Grab-and-smashing a Slayer directly into Asphyxious with a two-handed throw.

The Hydra's been a favourite of mine since the word go due to its potential as an assassination tool, but this just put it over the top. Against the average heavy you're hitting on below average rolls, and then the potential to open up yet another assassination lane is awesome.

At 35pts, I'm learning (as was discussed in the Mittens 4 Kittens thread) that the Phoenix really is enough of an arc node for Rahn...
... and Force Hammer is freakin' awesome. Deathjack didn't get into melee all game, thanks to slams and shoves.

[DarkLegacy]

I like the list. Do you normally use polarity shield? And do you normally have a model go for the assassination run? If so, is it only Narn?

[theorymachine]

^ very similar to a list run often...

Rahn
~Chimera
~Hydra

Eiryss or Narn
Mage Hunter Assassin
Magister x 2
Arcanist
Battle Mages (6)
Mage Hunters (10) + UA



One plays with a disposable arc node for early lateral vectored attack then springs feat and boosted Magic ability 6 power 10's and eventually auto hitting arcane arrows and power 15 shooting. Assassins are then for fear and distraction.... or opportunism.

Sadly one is very bothered still that one's magic attacks are not classified as magical. Rahn's poor match up is likely to be Menoth this season.

[gdaybloke]

This may sound like heresy, but what do people think of leaving out the battlemages? In testing so far they're just not pulling their weight for me. I confess that it could just be that I haven't figured them out yet, but I'm honestly thinking of just admitting that Rahn's feat is mediocre in itself, and leaving it for his own rolls only.

[theorymachine]

With the above list they have either been instrumental to the assassination or unable to target and little in between. Perhaps the feat could be dismissed and the magisters forgone but for five points, six additional fully boosted power tens at twelve inch range seem a bargain. Should one spend nine points and take two additional solos or ten for an additional unit? One would not want to face a largely magic immune force with 14 points of magic attackers surely.... Seven points for one unit and one solo sounds most balanced for the competitive level if the event only allows for one list.

[thecsharian]

This may sound like heresy, but what do people think of leaving out the battlemages? In testing so far they're just not pulling their weight for me. I confess that it could just be that I haven't figured them out yet, but I'm honestly thinking of just admitting that Rahn's feat is mediocre in itself, and leaving it for his own rolls only.

Personally, I have found Rahns feat to be either instrumental in pulling off a fast and shenanigan ridden win, or a complete failure (when you pop it at the wrong time). And am quite adamant in the view that if you aren't finding it to be effective, then you aren't using it right.

That said, Mages and Magisters... the feeling I have got from speaking to people (and reading the forums) is that they are very playstyle dependant, I know people who have never mananaged to do anything good with them, but for me they (the Magisters at least) are MVPs, and the only issue I have had with them is loosing them as they completely rock face.
So... I would suggest considering dropping maybe the Mages in your lower points games, and having another unit in their place (you only really want one or two units in smaller games anyways); but try to keep hold of a Magister or two.

It all comes down to playstyle and how you want the army to run on the table... if you're not trying to maximise mages and their magics, then they're just taking the space of other more effective (WRT your scheme) models.

[Redphantasm]

I'll be joining you all for Templecon (let the Ret civil war begin?)

gdaybloke. I like your later list, but I do agree that at a larger points value you need a line unit. Something big like Invictors or Halbardiers and their UA. Something you can cast polarity shield on.

My personal plan: Full + UA of Invictors, with a Scyir and Griffon waiting behind. Mini-feat/gunline, gunline, charge the Griffon and Scyir out, then charge the invictors for flank.

Delectable.

[gdaybloke]

I posted the list I played on Monday at LH this morning. The addition of a meatshield unit really went a long way - something that could do significant damage without relying on Rahn's support, and could absorb a charge as needed.

I need to test Invictors yet, but the Sentinels are looking like a certain for my Tcon list.

[FranzGrenstein]

So what meatshield unit did you use?

I was thinking the HH, especially with mittens.

Also there are some 12/17/9 update changes to D&S

BTW I like the way you marked the front arc.

[gdaybloke]

The Halberdiers would be an excellent option, but... I need to keep my painting schedule as simple as possible, and Sentinels will paint up much faster than Halberdiers. I used them as my meatshield and they performed admirably, taking out the bulk of the Swordsmen, and then threatening a cyclops, Ancestral Guardian, and Hexeris himself.

And yar, got the update to Dahlia and Skarath. Let testing commence!

[gdaybloke]

With the Sentinels well underway (will hopefully be completed by the end of the weekend - *hopefully*), here's a 50pt list for consideration.

Adeptis Rahn Shyeel
- Hydra
- Phoenix
Dawnguard Sentinels (10+UA+Soulless)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (6)
Stormfall Archers (4)
Arcanist
Ghost Sniper x2
House Shyeel Magister
Mage Hunter Assassin
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

I like that the Assassin adds another threat vector, and paired snipers will knock a collumn off a warjack every turn. Stormfall add some anti-stealth with low-scattering AoE's.

[Capsfan34]

That is a pretty solid list. My two focus would be to take a min unit of Sentinels and throw in another Magister...(plus it would be less to paint :P )